The American "Patriot Act" saves the day for the UK

JustAFan · 08-15-2006, 07:59 AM

Q.: How did the authorities discover the recent plot to blow up airliners in flight with liquid explosives?

A.: By the U.S. tapping into international calls and sharing the results with the British government.

-----------------------------------------------

There was always alot of controversy around the concept of wiretapping and organisations intruding on citizens' privacy. Especially considering that Americans hold their freedom very dear. Then came 9/11. Suddenly alot of Americans are now willing to give in some of their freedom considering circumstance. After all, it was only temporarily until terrorism and Middle Eastern anti-Americanism calmed down a bit. But every time the Patriot Act's period of validity started to run out the law was set out to be extended again.

On Februari 2003 the Patriot Act II took it's first step in the unsure and now perhaps riddling legislature of America. Was it really to feel at home there?

Quote:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

- George Washington, 1787

Patriot Act II:
# Removal of court-ordered prohibitions against police agencies spying on domestic groups.
# The FBI would be granted powers to conduct searches and surveillance based on intelligence gathered in foreign countries, without first obtaining a court order.
# Creation of a DNA database of suspected terrorists.
# Prohibition of any public disclosure of the names of alleged terrorists, including those who have been arrested.
# Exemptions from civil liability for people and businesses who voluntarily turn private information over to the government.
# Criminalization of the use of encryption to conceal incriminating communications.
# Automatic denial of bail for persons accused of terrorism-related crimes, reversing the ordinary common law burden of proof principle. All alleged terrorists would be required to demonstrate why they should be released on bail, rather than the government being required to demonstrate why they should be held.
# Expansion of the list of crimes eligible for the death penalty.
# The Environmental Protection Agency would be prevented from releasing "worst case scenario" information to the public about chemical plants.
# United States citizens whom the government finds to be either members of, or providing material support to, terrorist groups could have their US citizenship revoked and be deported to foreign countries.

For years George W. Bush haven't had the chance to actually prove the law's essentiality against terrorism. After all, Americans wanted to exterminate terrorism to preserve their freedom and not to hand it out to them. But about a week ago a considerable amount of space for serious doubt for doubts of this law has been created as well as an opportunity for a shipload of I-told-you-so's.

Quote:

A total of 24 individuals were arrested in Britain overnight and, says one senior U.S. official who was briefed on the plot, five still remain at large. Their plan was to smuggle the peroxide-based liquid explosive TATP and detonators onto nine different planes from four carriers — British Airways, Continental, United and American — that fly direct routes between the U.K and the U.S. and blow them up mid-air. Intelligence officials estimate that about 2,700 people would have perished, according to the official.

Britain's MI-5 intelligence service and Scotland Yard had been tracking the plot for several months, but only in the past two weeks had the plotters' planning begun to crystallize, senior U.S. officials tell TIME. In the two or three days before the arrests, the cell was going operational, and authorities were pressed into action. MI5 and Scotland Yard agents tracked the plotters from the ground, while a knowledgeable American official says U.S. intelligence provided London authorities with intercepts of the group's communications. Most of the suspects are second or third generation British citizens of Pakistani descent whose families hailed from war-torn Kashmir. U.S. officials believe the 29 members were divided into multiple cells and planned to break into small groups to board the nine planes.

Personally, I'm still with the well-known proverb 'innocent until proven guilty' on this issue. I believe wiretapping should only occur when there's considerable evidence for one being a potential terrorist and I think there should be no room for silly obscure arguments which could lead to qualify half the country of terrorist suspects.

Post your thoughts. Does this change your view on the Patriot Act and if not, why?

Houstatlantavegas · 08-15-2006, 02:57 PM

Propz on info

ANTIFREEZE · 08-15-2006, 03:39 PM

i thought the Patriot act I was bad.

Whoo_Kid · 08-15-2006, 07:32 PM

ive always supported the patriot act, good post

Young H.O.V · 08-15-2006, 07:47 PM

are you fucking stupid, the pakistani intelligence arrested a suspected terrorist a couple of weeks ago and after interrogation the bomb plot was foiled by the british intelligence...fuckin stupid ass always claiming america saved the day, fucking bullshit......Read the media other than american press....

5oX · 08-16-2006, 05:33 AM

we saved the day.

STUBWFC · 08-18-2006, 10:43 AM

What Young H.O.V.. said was right.

And I still think the Patriot Act is bad. It is a means of control and an intrusion on personal freedom. Terrorism has won if we are no longer able to have our right to freedom.

And, if the conspiracy theories are correct (I'm not saying they are) America would have been responsible for 9/11 and maybe this was a way of introducing the Partiot Act, so the government could have some element of control over our lives.

And when we consider the FACT that the Patriot Bill was passed with no discussion, no debate over its pro's and con's and was blindly constitutionalised because "there are so many bills that require debate that some bills just get passed to save time", it is quite clear that the Patriot Act shold not be.

Kiz · 08-22-2006, 08:25 AM

I don't feel as if my freedom has been reduced if someone could be listening to my calls looking out for an act of terror that could save my life. Why would anyone unless you had something to hide?

ANTIFREEZE · 08-22-2006, 02:36 PM

we should also have Telescreens in every room of every house just in case some people are doing illegal things.

Kiz · 08-23-2006, 02:21 PM

I don't think that would work somehow, but phone tapping has just been proved to work, i mean save innocent lives.

Young H.O.V · 08-25-2006, 09:41 PM

kiz ur not dead...where have u been my old friend?

Kiz · 08-27-2006, 01:23 PM

travelling, back to uni now soon.

BRizzle · 08-27-2006, 03:41 PM

in england your guilty until proven innocent

BLACKWALLBLOODS · 08-30-2006, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whoo_Kid

ive always supported the patriot act, good post

How can you say that?Its true that it looks like its helpfull but give it some time and the "Big Brother"shit will be out of controll

DipSet Season · 09-05-2006, 01:24 AM

propzzzzzzzz

TaL1b_KweL1 · 09-06-2006, 12:16 PM

errrr.... thanks i geuss

Whoo_Kid · 09-22-2006, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLACKWALLBLOODS

How can you say that?Its true that it looks like its helpfull but give it some time and the "Big Brother"shit will be out of controll

ur paranoid...other countries dont even pass these kind of acts and still look into the common person's privacy, so the US passes it and now ppl are freaking out, even tho other countries do it all the time illegally

~never~B~A-UNIT · 09-22-2006, 12:08 PM

It actually saved your ass they were going to crash em over your country.

Just glad they doing their job

09-22-2006, 12:08 PM	#18
~never~B~A-UNIT Veteran Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Everywhere Your NOT. Posts: 2,316 Repped: 162 Repped 270 Times in 30 Posts Neg Reps: 0 Neg Repped at 0 Times in 0 Posts	It actually saved your ass they were going to crash em over your country. Just glad they doing their job __________________

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08-15-2006, 02:57 PM	#2
Houstatlantavegas Veteran Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: . Posts: 10,641 Repped: 1,261 Repped 699 Times in 157 Posts Neg Reps: 0 Neg Repped at 2 Times in 2 Posts	Propz on info

08-15-2006, 03:39 PM	#3
ANTIFREEZE Race Hustlin Poverty Pimp Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Killa █♣█ Canada Posts: 411 Repped: 26 Repped 32 Times in 20 Posts Neg Reps: 0 Neg Repped at 0 Times in 0 Posts	i thought the Patriot act I was bad.

08-15-2006, 07:32 PM	#4
Whoo_Kid Cleveland Faithful Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 4,634 Repped: 1,307 Repped 1,299 Times in 509 Posts Neg Reps: 55 Neg Repped at 67 Times in 55 Posts	ive always supported the patriot act, good post

08-15-2006, 07:47 PM	#5
Young H.O.V Veteran Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: NY Posts: 2,013 Repped: 501 Repped 66 Times in 18 Posts Neg Reps: 3 Neg Repped at 2 Times in 2 Posts	are you fucking stupid, the pakistani intelligence arrested a suspected terrorist a couple of weeks ago and after interrogation the bomb plot was foiled by the british intelligence...fuckin stupid ass always claiming america saved the day, fucking bullshit......Read the media other than american press....

08-16-2006, 05:33 AM	#6
5oX Banned Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK - Manchester Posts: 3,714 Repped: 49 Repped 247 Times in 115 Posts Neg Reps: 0 Neg Repped at 2 Times in 2 Posts	we saved the day.

08-18-2006, 10:43 AM	#7
STUBWFC Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: WestCoast Posts: 202 Repped: 0 Repped 11 Times in 4 Posts Neg Reps: 0 Neg Repped at 0 Times in 0 Posts	What Young H.O.V.. said was right. And I still think the Patriot Act is bad. It is a means of control and an intrusion on personal freedom. Terrorism has won if we are no longer able to have our right to freedom. And, if the conspiracy theories are correct (I'm not saying they are) America would have been responsible for 9/11 and maybe this was a way of introducing the Partiot Act, so the government could have some element of control over our lives. And when we consider the FACT that the Patriot Bill was passed with no discussion, no debate over its pro's and con's and was blindly constitutionalised because "there are so many bills that require debate that some bills just get passed to save time", it is quite clear that the Patriot Act shold not be.

08-22-2006, 08:25 AM	#8
Kiz Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bolton, UK (BWFC) Posts: 36 Repped: 0 Repped 2 Times in 1 Post Neg Reps: 0 Neg Repped at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I don't feel as if my freedom has been reduced if someone could be listening to my calls looking out for an act of terror that could save my life. Why would anyone unless you had something to hide?

08-22-2006, 02:36 PM	#9
ANTIFREEZE Race Hustlin Poverty Pimp Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Killa █♣█ Canada Posts: 411 Repped: 26 Repped 32 Times in 20 Posts Neg Reps: 0 Neg Repped at 0 Times in 0 Posts	we should also have Telescreens in every room of every house just in case some people are doing illegal things.

08-23-2006, 02:21 PM	#10
Kiz Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bolton, UK (BWFC) Posts: 36 Repped: 0 Repped 2 Times in 1 Post Neg Reps: 0 Neg Repped at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I don't think that would work somehow, but phone tapping has just been proved to work, i mean save innocent lives.

08-25-2006, 09:41 PM	#11
Young H.O.V Veteran Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: NY Posts: 2,013 Repped: 501 Repped 66 Times in 18 Posts Neg Reps: 3 Neg Repped at 2 Times in 2 Posts	kiz ur not dead...where have u been my old friend?

08-27-2006, 01:23 PM	#12
Kiz Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bolton, UK (BWFC) Posts: 36 Repped: 0 Repped 2 Times in 1 Post Neg Reps: 0 Neg Repped at 0 Times in 0 Posts	travelling, back to uni now soon.

08-27-2006, 03:41 PM	#13
BRizzle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: SRQ Posts: 527 Repped: 43 Repped 0 Times in 0 Posts Neg Reps: 0 Neg Repped at 0 Times in 0 Posts	in england your guilty until proven innocent

09-05-2006, 01:24 AM	#15
DipSet Season Boss Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 757 Repped: 75 Repped 590 Times in 97 Posts Neg Reps: 1 Neg Repped at 0 Times in 0 Posts	propzzzzzzzz

09-06-2006, 12:16 PM	#16
TaL1b_KweL1 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,687 Repped: 0 Repped 7 Times in 2 Posts Neg Reps: 0 Neg Repped at 0 Times in 0 Posts	errrr.... thanks i geuss