Cash For Clunkers Online System Makes Your Computer U.S. Government Property

₪RapSody₪ · 07-31-2009, 10:45 PM

Text of the Privacy Act & Security Statement at cars.gov:

“This application provides access to the DoT CARS system. When logged on to the CARS system, your computer is considered a Federal computer system and is the property of the U.S. Government. Any or all uses of this system and all files on this system may be intercepted, monitored, recorded, copied, audited, inspected, and disclosed to authorized CARS, Dot, and law enforcement personnel, as well as authorized officials of other agencies, both domestic and foreign.”

I'm not saying it's a conspiracy.. but

HawaiianLoyalty · 08-02-2009, 02:19 AM

Im glad im sticking with my Civic!!! Government is looking to spy on us all these days :(

THREATS · 08-04-2009, 11:00 AM

^Lol. word

BucK_MarleY_07 · 08-04-2009, 10:26 PM

What is this Cash For Clunkers?

And i see you Rapsody

M. Daddy Dollars · 08-05-2009, 04:14 AM

Glenn Beck on CNN flipped the fuck out about this, but from what I've read, this isn't any different than what information websites get from you when you register with them. It's worded badly apparently, i guess or some shit.

M. Daddy Dollars · 08-05-2009, 04:23 AM

The privacy statement was poorly worded and the "submit transaction" screen that people refer to is actually used by the car dealers NOT the consumer. Glenn Beck promulgated this rumor by having it on his show and flipping the fuck out about it, and as it turns out the page he was clicking on was the transaction page for the actual car dealership (and no, they don't take over the car dealership's computers either). They've since changed the wording to avoid confusion. Having to give up personal information throught the terms of service is not enforceable even if cars.gov was capable of doing it.

₪RapSody₪ · 08-05-2009, 11:16 AM

I've read a lot of privacy statements, and none of them say your system is the property of (fill in the blank). That's a little beyond "poorly worded." You are also assuming that the government has to adhere to the same standards as a regular online business, which just isn't the case. You would have little to no recourse if the government had your personal information. And we know from history that certain people in government who have strong ties to the RIAA and MPAA have tried every angle to get into people's computers and even allow them to be infected with viruses if they have "illegally downloaded" files on their systems. Why should I believe this was simply a mistake? Because radical people like Glenn Beck flipped out about it somehow means it's harmless?

M. Daddy Dollars · 08-06-2009, 08:13 AM

The "this computer is government property" transaction page is the one that the car DEALERS would get, not the consumer. The page that askes this isn't even on cars.gov, it's on esc.gov. The only people that get login credentials to esc.gov are dealers who have been screened and registered for the cash for clunkers program. The web page that everyone questions is only available to car dealerships that have REGISTERED with the government and the cash for clunkers program. It has nothing to do with consumers. Consumers aren't even suppose to go to that page when joining the cash for clunkers program

M. Daddy Dollars · 08-06-2009, 08:19 AM

It's like if I attempted to login to walmart.com as the president of the company and the login page said something like "upon loggin on your computer is now property of walmart". I'm not the president of walmart and I have no reason to even be at this web page. It's the same thing. The 'geniuses' who thought they were blowing the whistle on this big government spying ring are just idiots who didn't realize what they were attempting to log into.

ImmortalTechnique · 08-06-2009, 11:49 AM

ZOMG THE APPROVED DEALERSHIPS THAT ARE DISBURSING GOVERNMENT MONEY THROUGH THEIR COMPUTERS TEMPORARILY COME UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE GOVERNMENT WHEN DISBURSING TAX MONEY FOR APPROVED PURCHASES TO AVOID FRAUD!

the sad thing is how bad you guys would be attacking Obama for waste if they WEREN'T doing this... no oversight, massive fraud! ZOMG!

this is pretty basic, not even slightly controversial stuff.

hint: if Glenn Beck believes it, its absolute bullshit. the dude is unhinged, and lies about the few things he CAN comprehend

₪RapSody₪ · 08-06-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M. Daddy Dollars

It's like if I attempted to login to walmart.com as the president of the company and the login page said something like "upon loggin on your computer is now property of walmart". I'm not the president of walmart and I have no reason to even be at this web page. It's the same thing. The 'geniuses' who thought they were blowing the whistle on this big government spying ring are just idiots who didn't realize what they were attempting to log into.

It's not really like that.. the fact that it was meant for "registered dealers" doesn't really make it meaningless. It's still an unbelievably broad and weird statement talking about giving up privacy rights to the government. The very fact that they would have a statement like that anywhere is puzzling. And the new one is completely different which is even odder and talks about how all information given is "voluntary" and says absolutely nothing about taking information for your computer. I never said that it was a spy ring, I was just puzzled by why they would use that language and I still am. "poorly worded" doesn't really begin to cover it. And if Wal-Mart had that statement on any of their pages for any purpose I would still think it was just as odd. And the fact that there have been many government efforts to get information off people's computers is just a little too coincidental for me. I'm not pretending I know exactly what the reason for it is, I just know something doesn't add up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImmortalTechnique

ZOMG THE APPROVED DEALERSHIPS THAT ARE DISBURSING GOVERNMENT MONEY THROUGH THEIR COMPUTERS TEMPORARILY COME UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE GOVERNMENT WHEN DISBURSING TAX MONEY FOR APPROVED PURCHASES TO AVOID FRAUD!

the sad thing is how bad you guys would be attacking Obama for waste if they WEREN'T doing this... no oversight, massive fraud! ZOMG!

this is pretty basic, not even slightly controversial stuff.

hint: if Glenn Beck believes it, its absolute bullshit. the dude is unhinged, and lies about the few things he CAN comprehend

So disbursing government money means you should give up all your privacy rights? Good logic.

Who's "you guys"? Oh right, I forgot.. to you, anyone who doesn't think Obama is savior and Goldman Sachs should run the Treasury is lumped in the same category.

ImmortalTechnique · 08-06-2009, 12:51 PM

the "reasonable expectation of privacy" is important legal language.

all this does is allows the goverment to use any information that goes through their system in the case of abuse or fraud. they can't get anything off your computer that isn't going through the website, this is to ensure that if someone abuses the system, the government has the right to use the records of how the website was used in court.

the paranoia is astounding

₪RapSody₪ · 08-06-2009, 01:06 PM

Then why did they completely take that language out of the privacy statement if they "need it" to prevent fraud? Why does it now say all information given is voluntary? And why does the old one specifically say your computer is government property if all they wanted to do was monitor fraud? They could've done that without that language, as they obviously have done now. At best they are guilty of horribly poor judgment, I'm just saying I don't always believe they have our best interests at heart.

Your trust of the government is astounding considering their repeated history of lying to push through their agenda.

M. Daddy Dollars · 08-06-2009, 01:15 PM

That login page is for the dealerships that register with the government for the program. All the "files" and everything that the government has the right to read are in reference to transactions, records, costs, etc. things the gov't needs and has the right to know, given the cars programs is a government run thing.

M. Daddy Dollars · 08-06-2009, 01:18 PM

Like, I know the gov't does shady shit, but I don't worry about this in the least. It's not even like their spying on consumers, it's just whatever computer the car dealership uses to make their Cash for Clunkers transaction. And it's not even like the gov't can tap into a computer just by clicking something on a security page (or so I've read), plus making a computer government property for this reason isn't even enforceable, so ...

₪RapSody₪ · 08-06-2009, 01:29 PM

I'm not sitting around worrying about it either, I don't think they are using this against people to spy on them but I still fail to realize why they needed to say your computer is considered government property FOR ANY REASON. That is way too broad of language for what you are proposing. And it is pretty common for government agencies to use broad language to justify doing things that are obviously far from the original intent of the language. That is my only main point. I'm not sitting around paranoid about it, you have me all wrong if that's what you think.

07-31-2009, 10:45 PM	#1
₪RapSody₪ [name pending] emcee Join Date: May 2004 Location: B-Town, IN Posts: 1,139 Repped: 13 Repped 70 Times in 40 Posts Neg Reps: 4 Neg Repped at 5 Times in 4 Posts	Cash For Clunkers Online System Makes Your Computer U.S. Government Property Cash For Clunkers Online System Makes Your Computer U.S. Government Property Text of the Privacy Act & Security Statement at cars.gov: “This application provides access to the DoT CARS system. When logged on to the CARS system, your computer is considered a Federal computer system and is the property of the U.S. Government. Any or all uses of this system and all files on this system may be intercepted, monitored, recorded, copied, audited, inspected, and disclosed to authorized CARS, Dot, and law enforcement personnel, as well as authorized officials of other agencies, both domestic and foreign.” I'm not saying it's a conspiracy.. but __________________ we're prepared to shed blood and die as martyrs for the roundtable

08-02-2009, 02:19 AM	#2
HawaiianLoyalty 808 Dahui 808 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Kailua' Oahu Posts: 4,498 Repped: 3,074 Repped 276 Times in 112 Posts Neg Reps: 128 Neg Repped at 40 Times in 33 Posts	Im glad im sticking with my Civic!!! Government is looking to spy on us all these days :( __________________

08-04-2009, 10:26 PM	#4
BucK_MarleY_07 LAUGH NOW, Cry Later Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: TopCity Posts: 4,330 Repped: 875 Repped 745 Times in 380 Posts Neg Reps: 118 Neg Repped at 493 Times in 306 Posts	What is this Cash For Clunkers? And i see you Rapsody __________________ Murderer Bill Jesuit Coadjutor Clinton laughing then caught fake crying at Ron Brown's funeral after seeing camera.

08-05-2009, 04:14 AM	#5
M. Daddy Dollars ***** I'm Me Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Washington Posts: 1,871 Repped: 317 Repped 203 Times in 93 Posts Neg Reps: 265 Neg Repped at 120 Times in 67 Posts	Glenn Beck on CNN flipped the fuck out about this, but from what I've read, this isn't any different than what information websites get from you when you register with them. It's worded badly apparently, i guess or some shit. __________________ "i want 50 cents penis in my chinese-malaysian butthol" -Lil Brizzle

08-05-2009, 04:23 AM	#6
M. Daddy Dollars ***** I'm Me Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Washington Posts: 1,871 Repped: 317 Repped 203 Times in 93 Posts Neg Reps: 265 Neg Repped at 120 Times in 67 Posts	The privacy statement was poorly worded and the "submit transaction" screen that people refer to is actually used by the car dealers NOT the consumer. Glenn Beck promulgated this rumor by having it on his show and flipping the fuck out about it, and as it turns out the page he was clicking on was the transaction page for the actual car dealership (and no, they don't take over the car dealership's computers either). They've since changed the wording to avoid confusion. Having to give up personal information throught the terms of service is not enforceable even if cars.gov was capable of doing it. __________________ "i want 50 cents penis in my chinese-malaysian butthol" -Lil Brizzle

08-04-2009, 11:00 AM	#3
THREATS Veteran Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 9,681 Repped: 525 Repped 263 Times in 138 Posts Neg Reps: 25 Neg Repped at 16 Times in 14 Posts	^Lol. word

08-05-2009, 11:16 AM	#7
₪RapSody₪ [name pending] emcee Join Date: May 2004 Location: B-Town, IN Posts: 1,139 Repped: 13 Repped 70 Times in 40 Posts Neg Reps: 4 Neg Repped at 5 Times in 4 Posts	I've read a lot of privacy statements, and none of them say your system is the property of (fill in the blank). That's a little beyond "poorly worded." You are also assuming that the government has to adhere to the same standards as a regular online business, which just isn't the case. You would have little to no recourse if the government had your personal information. And we know from history that certain people in government who have strong ties to the RIAA and MPAA have tried every angle to get into people's computers and even allow them to be infected with viruses if they have "illegally downloaded" files on their systems. Why should I believe this was simply a mistake? Because radical people like Glenn Beck flipped out about it somehow means it's harmless? __________________ we're prepared to shed blood and die as martyrs for the roundtable Last edited by ₪RapSody₪; 08-05-2009 at 11:22 AM.

08-06-2009, 08:13 AM	#8
M. Daddy Dollars ***** I'm Me Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Washington Posts: 1,871 Repped: 317 Repped 203 Times in 93 Posts Neg Reps: 265 Neg Repped at 120 Times in 67 Posts	The "this computer is government property" transaction page is the one that the car DEALERS would get, not the consumer. The page that askes this isn't even on cars.gov, it's on esc.gov. The only people that get login credentials to esc.gov are dealers who have been screened and registered for the cash for clunkers program. The web page that everyone questions is only available to car dealerships that have REGISTERED with the government and the cash for clunkers program. It has nothing to do with consumers. Consumers aren't even suppose to go to that page when joining the cash for clunkers program __________________ "i want 50 cents penis in my chinese-malaysian butthol" -Lil Brizzle

08-06-2009, 08:19 AM	#9
M. Daddy Dollars ***** I'm Me Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Washington Posts: 1,871 Repped: 317 Repped 203 Times in 93 Posts Neg Reps: 265 Neg Repped at 120 Times in 67 Posts	It's like if I attempted to login to walmart.com as the president of the company and the login page said something like "upon loggin on your computer is now property of walmart". I'm not the president of walmart and I have no reason to even be at this web page. It's the same thing. The 'geniuses' who thought they were blowing the whistle on this big government spying ring are just idiots who didn't realize what they were attempting to log into. __________________ "i want 50 cents penis in my chinese-malaysian butthol" -Lil Brizzle

08-06-2009, 11:49 AM	#10
ImmortalTechnique OPEN WIDE! Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Brew City, Milwaukee Posts: 3,042 Repped: 189 Repped 845 Times in 371 Posts Neg Reps: 7 Neg Repped at 233 Times in 140 Posts	ZOMG THE APPROVED DEALERSHIPS THAT ARE DISBURSING GOVERNMENT MONEY THROUGH THEIR COMPUTERS TEMPORARILY COME UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE GOVERNMENT WHEN DISBURSING TAX MONEY FOR APPROVED PURCHASES TO AVOID FRAUD! the sad thing is how bad you guys would be attacking Obama for waste if they WEREN'T doing this... no oversight, massive fraud! ZOMG! this is pretty basic, not even slightly controversial stuff. hint: if Glenn Beck believes it, its absolute bullshit. the dude is unhinged, and lies about the few things he CAN comprehend

08-06-2009, 12:51 PM	#12
ImmortalTechnique OPEN WIDE! Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Brew City, Milwaukee Posts: 3,042 Repped: 189 Repped 845 Times in 371 Posts Neg Reps: 7 Neg Repped at 233 Times in 140 Posts	the "reasonable expectation of privacy" is important legal language. all this does is allows the goverment to use any information that goes through their system in the case of abuse or fraud. they can't get anything off your computer that isn't going through the website, this is to ensure that if someone abuses the system, the government has the right to use the records of how the website was used in court. the paranoia is astounding

08-06-2009, 01:06 PM	#13
₪RapSody₪ [name pending] emcee Join Date: May 2004 Location: B-Town, IN Posts: 1,139 Repped: 13 Repped 70 Times in 40 Posts Neg Reps: 4 Neg Repped at 5 Times in 4 Posts	Then why did they completely take that language out of the privacy statement if they "need it" to prevent fraud? Why does it now say all information given is voluntary? And why does the old one specifically say your computer is government property if all they wanted to do was monitor fraud? They could've done that without that language, as they obviously have done now. At best they are guilty of horribly poor judgment, I'm just saying I don't always believe they have our best interests at heart. Your trust of the government is astounding considering their repeated history of lying to push through their agenda. __________________ we're prepared to shed blood and die as martyrs for the roundtable

08-06-2009, 01:15 PM	#14
M. Daddy Dollars ***** I'm Me Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Washington Posts: 1,871 Repped: 317 Repped 203 Times in 93 Posts Neg Reps: 265 Neg Repped at 120 Times in 67 Posts	That login page is for the dealerships that register with the government for the program. All the "files" and everything that the government has the right to read are in reference to transactions, records, costs, etc. things the gov't needs and has the right to know, given the cars programs is a government run thing. __________________ "i want 50 cents penis in my chinese-malaysian butthol" -Lil Brizzle

08-06-2009, 01:18 PM	#15
M. Daddy Dollars ***** I'm Me Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Washington Posts: 1,871 Repped: 317 Repped 203 Times in 93 Posts Neg Reps: 265 Neg Repped at 120 Times in 67 Posts	Like, I know the gov't does shady shit, but I don't worry about this in the least. It's not even like their spying on consumers, it's just whatever computer the car dealership uses to make their Cash for Clunkers transaction. And it's not even like the gov't can tap into a computer just by clicking something on a security page (or so I've read), plus making a computer government property for this reason isn't even enforceable, so ... __________________ "i want 50 cents penis in my chinese-malaysian butthol" -Lil Brizzle

08-06-2009, 01:29 PM	#16
₪RapSody₪ [name pending] emcee Join Date: May 2004 Location: B-Town, IN Posts: 1,139 Repped: 13 Repped 70 Times in 40 Posts Neg Reps: 4 Neg Repped at 5 Times in 4 Posts	I'm not sitting around worrying about it either, I don't think they are using this against people to spy on them but I still fail to realize why they needed to say your computer is considered government property FOR ANY REASON. That is way too broad of language for what you are proposing. And it is pretty common for government agencies to use broad language to justify doing things that are obviously far from the original intent of the language. That is my only main point. I'm not sitting around paranoid about it, you have me all wrong if that's what you think. __________________ we're prepared to shed blood and die as martyrs for the roundtable

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode